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Devout
#1
Devout

Devout is a major distinguishing trait, one that reserves the abilities of the High Priestess to the Devout kingdoms, but by implication also introduces a new character class, Sage, and a new recurring unusual encounter opportunity: Witches.

 
Only Devout can hire noble maidens or build temples, and therefore only Devout will have the ability to train a High Priestess.   However, other kingdoms can capture or kidnap a High Priestess from a kingdom and gain access to her powers. 
 
Only Devout can hire fanatics, which have +10 points to both success and cornering (chance of being captured or wounded).  Fanatics never reveal the kingdom they work for when captured, unlike agents who reveal their kingdom 50% of the time when captured.  Kingdoms that are not Devout might begin with a fanatic but cannot hire fanatics.
 
·        Devout kingdoms have -2 to the default maximum trainable agent level and +1000 to magic research cost.
·        They have only two skeletons in the closet.
·        They gain the Providence, Lesser Angel, Avenging Angel, and Arch Angel spells.
·        HP can cast Valor, Fear or Shield as P3 at range 3, as 7000 gold HP order.  At Great Temple, range is 5.
·        Begins with a temple and noble maiden at the capital.
·        An HP can begin acting on T3 (instead of T4).
·        Declared Enemies get -3 morale in Devout kingdom controlled regions if they are Suspicious or -5 morale if Hostile per turn the group is in the region instead of the normal morale reductions for Suspicious / Hostile regions.
 
Consider an Evil Devout – Perhaps the Demon Princes.
 
Devout magic prowess is average and spell lists are relatively restricted.  No teleportation, limited invisibility.
 
Great Temple.  Constructing a Great Temple requires three controlled temples in a region and regional control.  One of the temples is chosen to be converted to a Great Temple.
 
Only Devout can have fanatics.  Fanatics cost 50% of agent training to train up through L7, then the cost is the same as agents. 
 
All Devout and only Devout kingdoms can recruit Zealots.
 
Kingdom named and Zealot brigades gain 3 morale per turn up to 125 morale, independent of regional reaction morale adjustments when in a controlled region or outside any controlled PC with a temple. 
 
The Pc’s of Devout kingdoms with temples are immune to Fear, as are kingdom groups outside it, and groups of Devout kingdoms outside controlled PC’s with a temple gain 20% Faith bonus to defense (loss divider).
 
“Lesser Angel” for High Priestess of Devout becomes “Providence”.   Range 3, HP order at 7k or normal cost, increases census, defense, gold and food production 1000 of a controlled PC with a temple.  One Providence per PC per turn.
 
HP’s at controlled PC’s with Temples are intrinsically Blessed. 
 
Divine Protection:  An intrinsic ability of a Devout kingdom that controls a region with four or more temples and a great temple.  All Regional Spells cast in the region by any but the controlling kingdom will fizzle. 
 
Regions with Divine Protection require no Rule of Law payment.
 
Great Temple [40,000 gold, 60,000 food, prerequisite: Temple and Great Temple only at a town or city with a forum (forum required to convert temple to Great Temple).  As Temple benefits, hire noble maiden or high priestess at 50%, high priestess/consul divinations cost 50% (if high priestess/consul is at pc), +0.5 influence, +4 status quo, +20% census, +20 points intrinsic Counter-Espionage.
A Great Temple can only be constructed if the kingdom controls three PC’s with temples in the same region. There may only be one Great Temple in a region.  
 
If a Devout kingdom controls a region with a controlled Great Temple, that kingdom cannot be denigrated, similar to Xenophobic, while in control of the region.
 
HP’s at Great Temples become Weary only 25% of the time.
 
New HP Ability:  #774 Holy Intervention (HP Dispel regional effect) Within her region, the HP in Good Health (not Weary) and at the cost of 7000 gold, can dispel a regional effect spell. Regardless of kingdom trait, if she succeeds (meaning the regional spell was cast and so dispelled by the HP), the HP becomes Exhausted after performing this miracle (“First Occurring” on the dropdown list is a choice, otherwise indicate specific spell).  If no spell was dispelled by the HP, she remains in Good health.  Choose from dropdown any of the following first or any after (as in Dispel), or default to Any:
o   Any
o   Summon Kraken
o   Cold Darkness
o   Blinding Light
o   Summon Demon
o   Plague
o   Famine
o   Blanket of Fog
o   Hurricane
 
At a Great Temple, an HP can Summon Valkyries that are a permanent brigade type: flying, high values, cause fear as P2, to a group at that PC without Valkyries: limit one per group.  Valkyries also give Tracking to the group if the kingdom does not already have.  HP must be in Good Health and becomes Exhausted. 
 
Angels are a one turn of three varieties:
·        Lesser Angel –   TBD
·        Avenging Angel – Can Vanquish a character – current location, name, kingdom.  Target character wakes up confused at his capital with command given: Vanquished to capital (counts as sole command).
·        Arch Angel –   TBD
 
_____________________


With the abilities of the High Priestess restricted to Devout kingdoms, there is the introduction of two new character classes.
 
Sage
·        May be hired In capital with forum and bazaar only.
·        Costs 25,000 gold to hire and 7k to use.
·        Must be located in capital with a forum to do other than relocate
·        Becomes Weary 100% when used, and then 100% Exhausted is used while Weary as HP.
·        Switches allegiance when captured and kidnapped
·        Easy to kidnap if not guarded
·        Can do these Orders when not exhausted (Uncover Lore):
o   Uncover Artifact Name
o   Uncover Artifact Location
o   Uncover PC’s
o   Increase Ruler’s Influence by 0.5
 
Witch, where only non-Devout can successfully encounter Witches.  Witch is a recurring Enigma Encounter.  For 7,000 one group per turn that has not retreated from Combat can use.  After use, the Witch relocates randomly to an empty (no groups, PC’s or encounters) wild area in the same region.  There may be one witch in each region which does not begin with a capital of a Devout kingdom.
 
If game creation sequencing makes the placement in non-Devout problematic, then seven regions, likely the Savage Lands and Trading Coast regions would have a Witch.

Witches can conjure to learn an artifact location or short name, or to Heal a group as per spell.
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#2
Wow!  This is huge.  If implemented this will change a lot.

Valkyries jump right off the page at me and I would consider that a Must Do.  And I like the not so little changes for devout kingdoms such as priestesses being Blessed, the Rule of law waiver, and the protection from denigration.  And making the DE devout?   Interesting.

The Sage and the Witch are interesting.  I particularly like the Sage for non devouts (or can devout use them as well?)  and it makes me think of a new building type:  The Library.  Or maybe a Great Library.  Whatever.  I can see a lot of people stealing each other's sages.  The randomness of the Witch is all a nice touch.  More encounters is always a good thing.

The only thing I would change is the casting ranges.  3 hexes for fear/valor/providence etc isn't very far. Especially if you are in a big region like Darkover or an odd shaped one like Krynn.  I know its 5 for Great Temples but you only get one of those.

Now I'm thinking what Lesser Angel and Arch Angel could be.   Off the top of my head I am thinking Lesser Angel could be some kind of 6-8 hex Eagle familiar or a boosted Heal spell.  But Arch Angel would have to be something - well - biblical.  Like a massive Meteor Storm or a Crack the Sky type of thing.

You know, I have half an article written on "How to fix the Sacred Order".  That's all out the window now.

Thumbs up!
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#3
Out of all of the proposed changes for the update coming this year, modification to the Devout trait is perhaps the biggest one to handle. I would like players to take another look at the above and let Rick know of any possible concerns that you may have.

For example, Devout kingdoms will be the only ones allowed to hire a Noble Maiden/High Priestess. Sure, you may capture one from military conquest or have an agent kidnap one but those can be prevented by the other player. I think High Priestesses have been around since Alamaze 1.0 so this is probably the biggest change to the game since its inception.

Only these kingdoms may hire one:
   Amazons
   Ancient Ones
   Black Dragon
   Lizard Men
   Nomads
   Sacred Order

For everyone else, especially in the early stages of the game, your kingdom will have to find population centers and unusual encounters by other means. No divinations for pop centers or artifacts. This is a big change to the game so I want everyone to be ok with this before I start coding it.

Also, another major change is that Devout kingdoms will not be allowed to cast any teleportation spells. That's another one that people may have overlooked above. The design document doesn't specify but I am assuming that also includes the wizard's self-teleportation spell so it's not just group teleportations.

BTW, since we're on the topic of spells, see the attachment for some of the spell changes for Evil (and non-Evil) kingdoms. Let us know your opinion. More later but I've been busy this month...


Attached Files Thumbnail(s)
   
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#4
(01-23-2022, 01:57 PM)unclemike Wrote: Out of all of the proposed changes for the update coming this year, modification to the Devout trait is perhaps the biggest one to handle. I would like players to take another look at the above and let Rick know of any possible concerns that you may have.

For example, Devout kingdoms will be the only ones allowed to hire a Noble Maiden/High Priestess. Sure, you may capture one from military conquest or have an agent kidnap one but those can be prevented by the other player. I think High Priestesses have been around since Alamaze 1.0 so this is probably the biggest change to the game since its inception.

Only these kingdoms may hire one:
   Amazons
   Ancient Ones
   Black Dragon
   Lizard Men
   Nomads
   Sacred Order

For everyone else, especially in the early stages of the game, your kingdom will have to find population centers and unusual encounters by other means. No divinations for pop centers or artifacts. This is a big change to the game so I want everyone to be ok with this before I start coding it.

Also, another major change is that Devout kingdoms will not be allowed to cast any teleportation spells. That's another one that people may have overlooked above. The design document doesn't specify but I am assuming that also includes the wizard's self-teleportation spell so it's not just group teleportations.

BTW, since we're on the topic of spells, see the attachment for some of the spell changes for Evil (and non-Evil) kingdoms. Let us know your opinion. More later but I've been busy this month...
My vote would be to leave this alone and look for play balance in other areas.  To me this adds multiple levels of complexity to a game that is already too complex for many people to be interested in.  I'm not saying that the current player base doesn't love the game.  It just needs to be easier to learn instead of more difficult.  The devout /evil concept is interesting to talk about but as Uncle Mike tells us the potential problems actually make the game less playable.
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#5
(01-23-2022, 02:35 PM)Wookie Panz Wrote:
(01-23-2022, 01:57 PM)unclemike Wrote: Out of all of the proposed changes for the update coming this year, modification to the Devout trait is perhaps the biggest one to handle. I would like players to take another look at the above and let Rick know of any possible concerns that you may have.

For example, Devout kingdoms will be the only ones allowed to hire a Noble Maiden/High Priestess. Sure, you may capture one from military conquest or have an agent kidnap one but those can be prevented by the other player. I think High Priestesses have been around since Alamaze 1.0 so this is probably the biggest change to the game since its inception.

Only these kingdoms may hire one:
   Amazons
   Ancient Ones
   Black Dragon
   Lizard Men
   Nomads
   Sacred Order

For everyone else, especially in the early stages of the game, your kingdom will have to find population centers and unusual encounters by other means. No divinations for pop centers or artifacts. This is a big change to the game so I want everyone to be ok with this before I start coding it.

Also, another major change is that Devout kingdoms will not be allowed to cast any teleportation spells. That's another one that people may have overlooked above. The design document doesn't specify but I am assuming that also includes the wizard's self-teleportation spell so it's not just group teleportations.

BTW, since we're on the topic of spells, see the attachment for some of the spell changes for Evil (and non-Evil) kingdoms. Let us know your opinion. More later but I've been busy this month...
My vote would be to leave this alone and look for play balance in other areas.  To me this adds multiple levels of complexity to a game that is already too complex for many people to be interested in.  I'm not saying that the current player base doesn't love the game.  It just needs to be easier to learn instead of more difficult.  The devout /evil concept is interesting to talk about but as Uncle Mike tells us the potential problems actually make the game less playable.

I concur
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#6
I like it.  But, I recognize it could go horribly wrong without a playtest.  The problem is with our small player base, and presumably low programming budget, bigger changes without playtest are a bigger risk.  I am pessimistic about expanding the base, it seems to me we have been about the same for over a decade... around 30 active players at any one time.  I thought my kids, for instance, would be good candidates... being heavy into board games and role-playing gamer culture, but they have zero interest.  Its a tiny niche and getting smaller, sadly.
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#7
(01-24-2022, 03:31 PM)Senior Tactician Wrote: I like it.  But, I recognize it could go horribly wrong without a playtest.  The problem is with our small player base, and presumably low programming budget, bigger changes without playtest are a bigger risk.  I am pessimistic about expanding the base, it seems to me we have been about the same for over a decade... around 30 active players at any one time.  I thought my kids, for instance, would be good candidates... being heavy into board games and role-playing gamer culture, but they have zero interest.  Its a tiny niche and getting smaller, sadly.

I have three kids, alas, breeding our way into a bigger player base seems a) expensive, and 2) slow.
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#8
(01-23-2022, 01:57 PM)unclemike Wrote: Out of all of the proposed changes for the update coming this year, modification to the Devout trait is perhaps the biggest one to handle. I would like players to take another look at the above and let Rick know of any possible concerns that you may have.

For example, Devout kingdoms will be the only ones allowed to hire a Noble Maiden/High Priestess. Sure, you may capture one from military conquest or have an agent kidnap one but those can be prevented by the other player. I think High Priestesses have been around since Alamaze 1.0 so this is probably the biggest change to the game since its inception.

Only these kingdoms may hire one:
   Amazons
   Ancient Ones
   Black Dragon
   Lizard Men
   Nomads
   Sacred Order

For everyone else, especially in the early stages of the game, your kingdom will have to find population centers and unusual encounters by other means. No divinations for pop centers or artifacts. This is a big change to the game so I want everyone to be ok with this before I start coding it.

Also, another major change is that Devout kingdoms will not be allowed to cast any teleportation spells. That's another one that people may have overlooked above. The design document doesn't specify but I am assuming that also includes the wizard's self-teleportation spell so it's not just group teleportations.

BTW, since we're on the topic of spells, see the attachment for some of the spell changes for Evil (and non-Evil) kingdoms. Let us know your opinion. More later but I've been busy this month...



I think Sages covers the Pop Locations and Artifacts for non devout kingdoms. And I dont see anything about Devout not being able to teleport. If this is true think I think this is overly prohibitive. Evil already has more bonuses and less restrictions than Devout does and the teleport thing would just make it all too lopsided.

That being said, I understand Wookie's concern about complexity and marketability of the game. I don't mind a bunch of rules and details so long as they are all clearly laid out, but I can see a potential new player being frustrated and walking away. Valid point.
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#9
Since there's some concern over these changes, I'll hold off and wait until Rick reconsiders the design. This weekend, I'll upgrade the server of the more urgent modifications that I'll post under Uncle Mike's Corner section.
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#10
(01-28-2022, 02:40 AM)unclemike Wrote: Since there's some concern over these changes, I'll hold off and wait until Rick reconsiders the design. This weekend, I'll upgrade the server of the more urgent modifications that I'll post under Uncle Mike's Corner section.

U.M. is it possible to add this to the to the online order system where you put the Maelstrom release notes, 4th cycle?  It's a lot easier for players to have it on a tab there instead of having to search on the forum.

Thanks for what you do.
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