180 orders

[VballMichael]

So, I have been playing for a while and have never used the 180 order. Why, you ask, even though I have played all of the military kingdoms?
Simply put, I don't have any idea how effective it is or what the math is (like not even a clue). Thus, I don't want to attempt to scare if all I am really doing is pushing the pop center to 150% defense and forcing myself to attack it. Thus, I either hit it or do diplomacy.
Anyone have even a basic idea of what one needs in the group to do a 180 order? Does regional reaction matter (seems like it should not)?
I have seen a couple of threads on 180, but none that discuss how or when to use it.
Thanks,
Vball Michael (newbie hiding in a veteran shell)

[Ry Vor]

LOL - VBM newbie.

I guess it does come down to, I view Alamaze as an adventure strategy game. Some players look at it like poker where they should be able to calculate the odds at all times.

This is sort of an issue for me with 3rd Cycle. Personally, I would like the new setups to be secret, to add to the suspense, but I can't stop players from sharing, which was a major disappointment when 2nd Cycle first came out.

[VballMichael]

LOL - VBM newbie.

I guess it does come down to, I view Alamaze as an adventure strategy game.  Some players look at it like poker where they should be able to calculate the odds at all times.

This is sort of an issue for me with 3rd Cycle.  Personally, I would like the new setups to be secret, to add to the suspense, but I can't stop players from sharing, which was a major disappointment when 2nd Cycle first came out.

I actually agree with you. If it were possible to keep formulas secret, I would be in favor. Unfortunately, that gives experienced players a BIG advantage. Thus, formulas and player aids have been created and shared, and most of the rules and mechanics are now public. Strangely though, 180 keeps getting skipped . I am not looking for exact odds. But I don't even know if the basic chance of success starts at 10 times the pop center value or way higher or way lower.

If nobody has an advantage (i.e., nobody knows that math), then the knowledge of rules/mechanics is even and only strategy and tactics are private, and we go on.

I can beat up my armies or the pop centers in a whole bunch of battles and eventually figure out the math. Then I would have an advantage with that order for other games. If that is the consensus, that works for me. I am playing the BL in 3 games right now, so let the experimenting begin.

[Ry Vor]

Its interesting stuff, to me anyway.  In chess, you become better by learning tricks and openings, and how to exploit opponents openings.  A knight fork, a pin or a discovered check are moves that show an understanding.  I'd prefer Alamaze be more by feel than computation, so what I am sort of proposing is, can we have maybe six months of 3rd Cycle have mainly mystery, and then we would share setups, some formula evaluations, etc.  I know the hard core think, "why would I give up an advantage?", but it would be nice to have a little new kind of tension, the unexpected, or as I initially said, the adventure.

[Lord Diamond]

When I was in the Air Force, I spent two years in Japan back in 92-94 or so. I played a lot of RSI games, especially Alamaze. I collected all the setups and would actually sell them for 25,000 gold each. I would have to snail-mail them. It was a nice in-game business since it was mote difficult to make personal connections.

One of the other players was actually im prison for kidnapping the snitch who got his whol drug-dealing family arrested. The guy manged to get a cops attention at a red light, or who knows what might have happened. Anyway, I had to fill out all these forms so we coild send stuff back and forth and we even spoke a few times.

The moral of the story is that players will most certainly get the setups unless you introduce random variables.

[Ry Vor]

Interesting story.  Yes, probably no way to stop exchange of the new stuff.  Of course, now players set their own ESO's and SVC's, and SVC's won't end the game, and Skeletons and such will change from game to game.  Maybe its not that big a deal, I just think if our players agreed not to exchange setups, it might be a cooler first six months of 3rd Cycle.

[Jumpingfist]

The only time I use the 180 order is for the order sequence to allow me to attack a PC after I have launched a couple Mage destroy spells. The bonus 35% does not out weigh how much less defense the PC now has. But I have never used it to actually just threaten the PC.

[Jumpingfist]

Interesting story.  Yes, probably no way to stop exchange of the new stuff.  Of course, now players set their own ESO's and SVC's, and SVC's won't end the game, and Skeletons and such will change from game to game.  Maybe its not that big a deal, I just think if our players agreed not to exchange setups, it might be a cooler first six months of 3rd Cycle.

I would agree. But that does not mean I do not want to play a Titan match

[gkmetty]

I'm sorry but I disagree strongly. To use Ry Vor's example, how much fun would chess be if you did not know how the pieces moved or how one piece interacted with another, the method a pawn uses to capture is not intuitive for most people. If you dont know the rules you cant play the game. If Alamaze did not penalize bad decisions or mistakes I could see your point but the disappointment that comes because you lose a L15 agent trying to kidnap a DE prince, or the capture of a high level emmie who failed to turn a pop center to your side, all because the rules were hidden. These are disappointments that can turn players away from the game. Alamaze is a strategy game and I have never played a strategy game that touted a trial and error method of game play. I think with the new customization features I have seen along with the new spells, brigade types, and kingdom special abilities, there will be more than enough mystery to allow for the discovery of tricks and combinations. Hiding, or keeping secret, important information only helps the most experienced players and the game designers.

[HeadHoncho]

I'm sorry but I disagree strongly.  To use Ry Vor's example, how much fun would chess be if you did not know how the pieces moved or how one piece interacted with another, the method a pawn uses to capture is not intuitive for most people.  If you dont know the rules you cant play the game.  If Alamaze did not penalize bad decisions or mistakes I could see your point but the disappointment that comes because you lose a L15 agent trying to kidnap a DE prince, or the capture of a high level emmie who failed to turn a pop center to your side, all because the rules were hidden.  These are disappointments that can turn players away from the game.  Alamaze is a strategy game and I have never played a strategy game that touted a trial and error method of game play.  I think with the new customization features I have seen along with the new spells, brigade types, and kingdom special abilities, there will be more than enough mystery to allow for the discovery of tricks and combinations.  Hiding, or keeping secret, important information only helps the most experienced players and the game designers.

+1.


The reality is, this isn't an RPG or a fantasy exploration game.  It's a fantasy war game, with strategy and tactics being a huge emphasis.