Secret Victory Conditions

[Ry Vor]

The Secret Victory Conditions (and ESO's) are being reviewed and are the final step in 2nd Cycle changes (a few other changes are presently underway and easier to do). Then your humble designer will enjoy working on what for now we'll just call 3rd Cycle.

In the meantime, games starting between now and then won't have SVC's. That includes all three games (Seeking New Heroes, Master and Apprentice and Experienced Steel) looking to form now.

I understand and completely agree with the disappointment when a game ends early, prematurely, because an SVC that was assigned was relatively easy.

We are moving the standard victory condition to 4 regions from the historic 5, and the SVC's will be made such that either Standard or SVC is equally likely to determine the winner in any given game.

I'm also fleshing out something for 3rd Cycle that further refines what is now SVC with something that may replace it or augment it (TBD), what presently I am calling the King's Legacy, which is something like a SVC but doesn't end the game, but does get recorded in Valhalla for that kingdom and persona.

[Kalrex]

Sounds cool Rick.

[Hawk_]

Sounds like you are making some changes that will make the game better for everyone.

The King's Legacy idea sounds cool.

[Brogan]

The Secret Victory Conditions (and ESO's) are being reviewed and are the final step in 2nd Cycle changes (a few other changes are presently underway and easier to do). Then your humble designer will enjoy working on what for now we'll just call 3rd Cycle.

In the meantime, games starting between now and then won't have SVC's. That includes all three games (Seeking New Heroes, Master and Apprentice and Experienced Steel) looking to form now.

I understand and completely agree with the disappointment when a game ends early, prematurely, because an SVP that was assigned was relatively easy.

We are moving the standard victory condition to 4 regions from the historic 5, and the SVC's will be made such that either Standard or SVC is equally likely to determine the winner in any given game.

I'm also fleshing out something for 3rd Cycle that further refines what is now SVC with something that may replace it or augment it (TBD), what presently I am calling the King's Legacy, which is something like a SVC but doesn't end the game, but does get recorded in Valhalla for that kingdom and persona.

Thank you for listening. Time to sign up!

Lord Brogan

[Wynterbreeze]

Sounds like you are making some changes that will make the game better for everyone.

The King's Legacy idea sounds cool.

This! We'll done

[HeadHoncho]

Agreed on all points! I love the King's Legacy idea, it reminds me of playing Civ even after the victory condition has been met (just... one... more... turn). For an added twist, you could maybe have a victory that takes you and all of your resources out of the game, and turns all of your pop centers neutral, for the rest of the players to fight over, until the second place finisher achieves a condition, and so on.

Probably more trouble than it's worth, but I kinda like it.

[Ry Vor]

One of the advantages of being an Imperator, is from time to time, we bounce design or related ideas off of them.

I think I will ask the Imperators via email to weigh in on the ideas for new SVC soon, maybe tomorrow.

[Brogan]

Think about this, if the standard victory condition is now 4 regions, the Secret victory condition should be 3 regions plus something that is not normally obtained. What I mean is any kingdom that owns 2 or 3 regions over 10 to 15 turns most likely has a level 7 agent or a couple artifacts or 3 or 4 cities. Those things you achieve during the normal course of the game. Something that is not a given may be:
Having a HC seat
Having a 22/23 INF
Having a level 7+ agent sitting in your dungeon.
Owning every city located in a forest square.

I also think tying one or more conditons to your natural enemy is an excellent way to foster hostilities

Remember I think the goal is to have players win by SVC 50% of time. That means that half the time the SVC needs to be harder to achive than owning 4 regions.

Lord Brogan

[Ry Vor]

Leaking a bit of what's coming:

The new Standard Victory (The Rex) is control of 4 regions.

Objectives for new SVC's:
1. Make games more fair by eliminating too-easy SVC’s;
2. Simplify processing by having code-able SVC instead of manual processing which is inefficient, delays other tasks and frequently results in errors as;
3. Improve this strategic element to create new player-influenced direction their kingdom takes;
4. Allow the player to determine the strategic course for his kingdom;
5. Make Standard Victory and Secret Victory about equally obtainable for 2nd Cycle.
6. The SVC's cannot be claimed until Turn 16.


So we identify eight potential areas of strategic dominance that makes sense in the world. A player must have success in three of these. Key thing is the player gets to choose which two of seven they wish, but for now all players will have a "Territory" requirement as one of the three. Within that objective, the player has choices how to achieve their Territory Objective. He chooses one of the a -d below:

The Primary Objectives and related Specific Accomplishment Criteria:

1. Territory
a. Control 3 regions;
b. Be Substantial in 3 regions and Significant in 2;
c. Control 5 cities and 15 towns.
d. Control Avalon, Viperhead, and Esteria Vale.


More later, but post what you think: are we on the right track?

[Brogan]

On my yes! That is fantastic! Choosing 2 of your own conditions is a great idea.

Lord Brogan