PCs are they fully random

[Jumpingfist]

This is another tip buried in the 300 thread

PC are random but also have some kind of function to "try" and not place them next to each other.  What does this mean?  basically it is rare to find two PCs touching each other at cardinal angles.

so this is most important when your searching for PCs on your opening turns especially in diplomacy and warlords/team type games.   The average region has 68 squares.  most kingdoms start with 2 PCs in there home region and 1 city, this would mean if the PCs do not start on the edge of the region you would effectively have 11 squares already search for PC or 16%.    use your groups and scouts/wizards get maybe 21 more many kingdoms even more than this. your upto 32/68 47% or ask someone the location of there PC in your region even if you agree not to take it 5 more squares.  it adds up very quickly you are already in a way scouting over 50% of the region even though your not covering all the squares.  scout 50%+ good chance you find enough to take the region by turn 3.   also because you start with a city, town capital, and village you basically already start knowing 25% of the census.  

other things I have noticed but do not have specific math to back it up.

- PCs like to find there way into the nooks.  - some regions have these little nooks like the lower mountains of R2, the west side of R6, east side of R8, east side of R4.  these are the best areas to send blind emmy moves to on T1
- PCs some times line up in rows two squares apart.
- PCs can be next to cities

[Drogo]

Lower mountains of R2? Do you mean R1?

[unclemike]

Popcenter placement is done as randomly as possible. Logic is necessary to avoid clumping of popcenters near each other (as some may recall during game 300) but it also depends on the collision rate of the chosen map location that was already filled with a pc (which forces a re-roll due to the collision).

There's also no pattern of towns vs. villages since the program first randomly decides how many towns/villages should exist in a particular region then scrambles them together so not all of one type are placed on the map before the other. This results in a fairly evenly spread of popcenters on the map.

Collision becomes a problem as the map gets filled up and also experiences hits along regional borders. So if a popcenter was neatly placed along Oakendale's southern border, any popcenters for Torvale may detect those adjacent popcenters in Oakendale which forces a re-roll (and vice-versa as the regions are randomly populated in piecemeal as well).

Depending upon the luck of the die roll, some regions reach their threshold where it may not be possible to evenly spread out all their popcenters which triggers the secondary level of determination for map assignment. Secondary logic involves checking each of the 8 squares surrounding a given area and randomly checks each one for a collision. Since each adjacent area is randomly checked, this results in a limited assortment of the 8 surrounding areas that will be checked for that given area during this stage (for a random upon random series of checks).

So the first level of determination guarantees no adjacent popcenters to each other (which reaches its threshold fairly quickly since the regions aren't that big) then the secondary level triggers which randomly checks each of the 8 surrounding areas for a collision. Some popcenters will be placed alongside another during the secondary stage. There are certain critical thresholds for these two stages based upon statistical equations and when they are reached, the program enters a third stage which forces placement of the pc to an open map location regardless of what may be next to it.

So the code goes through multiple levels of randomness to determine popcenter placement (by pc type, region piecemeal, 3 levels of collision detection) and is about as random as the program can make it. You can try to find a pattern but it may end up being valid only in your own mind. But if you're really determined to find an advantage somewhere, you may want to try issuing the agent 4 square search pattern to be along a diagonal direction (or vertical/horizontal). Why? Because there's a ton of logic preventing popcenters from being clumped together so if you issue a 4 square search pattern as a neat little square rather than as a straight line, you may not find as many goodies as if had you searched along a linear direction. But despite giving that advice, I've tried this technique a few times now and always came up empty. Go figure

BTW, there are no "nooks" on the map so don't think if a popcenter was in the mountains in one game that it'll be there the next. The only map location that is reserved is the Fire of the Void location (along with the prefixed city locations unless you play a game with random cities like game 300 which was alot of fun). All other locations are open and fair game to popcenter placement. Good luck.

[Jumpingfist]

awsome even better avoid all squares around known PCs while searching. You will miss some but you will increase your odds of finding more.

As for nooks. They are real. Maybe not intentionally programmed but very real. Call them the natural selection of PC locations. Darwinism of Alamaze. Anyway I did a test I pulled up 10 maps and looked at my nooks mentioned to see if I mapped that region if there was a PC in my "nooks". Results below. So you blind move fans out there have a field day. In the longer nooks there are even two PC many times.

4 of 4
3 of 3
2 of 2
3 of 3
3 of 3
2 of 2
2 of 2
2 of 2
4 of 4
4 of 4

I would go as far as to say you have just below a 95% chance if you random move into these squares list you will find a PC in one of them on turn 1. Watch out because those big militaries also now know.
R3 JZ KZ
R4 OI PI. Water alert
R6 QR RR
R8 UR US

Scouting away from know PCs. Better to scout in a straight line (any of the 8 directions) than in squares because if you find a PC the rest of the square should be clear


Most collisions (2 PCs next to each other) happen in R9 the smallest region

A final note while researching the nooks I did notice the areas around the cities follow the same rules as any other PCs. So even more areas already search.

Good hunting

[VballMichael]

Very helpful, JF. Thanks for sharing.

[unclemike]

Hey now, don't get too comfortable with all of that. All Ry Vor has to say is change the algorithm and in less than an hour, I can modify the program so that it doesn't check so frequently for adjacent pc's. That'll mess with ya

[Jumpingfist]

Haha I know I even provided a different more random suggestion before. Change actually generally benefits me I play more than your average Joe so can figure it out and adapt more quickly. Just figured I would share with all since I have been telling most my teammates and the mentored for some time. I do find it interesting how many players are stubborn not to accept it and still scout next to there PCs on the first turn trying to find that exception and then complain they got unlucky.

[Ry Vor]

Hey now, don't get too comfortable with all of that. All Ry Vor has to say is change the algorithm and in less than an hour, I can modify the program so that it doesn't check so frequently for adjacent pc's. That'll mess with ya

LOL.  I was considering posting that if there really are "nooks", Mike will have that corrected in a blink so it won't be valuable going forward.

[Jumpingfist]

maybe we should have posted the DE exploit as a tip and trick to get it fixed. Do as you like of course if I find PCs do not show up in nooks that is also good info.

[Rytek]

Can PC's show upon Any square of the map(other than cities).
What about UT--That mountain called Titus. Or NN, That Volcano or RB that big whirlpool in the ocean?