02-03-2023, 02:19 PM
Agreed. These should all be private messages if you guys kjow each other
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GrimFinger's Learning The Game Thread
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02-03-2023, 04:02 PM
Maximus Dominus, I like the cut of your jib my man and I think Alamaze is going to benefit greatly from your input. Here's mine: Before the newest 12 kingdoms were added, game balance had still not yet been achieved. Despite the best players in the community having taken it as a personal challenge, some kingdoms have YET to experience a victory. After a couple of tweeks to one or two currently existing kingdoms, I had finally achieved a victory with the Sacred Order (the kingdom had been played 17 times, less than 1/4 the number of times most kingdoms have, with zero wins), a kingdom practically shunned in individual games. The Elves and Black Dragons have yet to gain that distinction (since last I looked). Meanwhile, a few kingdoms dominate valhalla. Adding the new kingdoms before achieving at least a semblance of balance is what turned me off the game. I have no interest in exploring the new kingdoms. I admit it may be because I have not fully investigated the previous 24 kingdoms. Now though, the game seems very cluttered. Just my two cents.
02-04-2023, 01:47 PM
(02-03-2023, 04:02 PM)Senior Tactician Wrote: Maximus Dominus, I like the cut of your jib my man and I think Alamaze is going to benefit greatly from your input. Here's mine: Before the newest 12 kingdoms were added, game balance had still not yet been achieved. Despite the best players in the community having taken it as a personal challenge, some kingdoms have YET to experience a victory. After a couple of tweeks to one or two currently existing kingdoms, I had finally achieved a victory with the Sacred Order (the kingdom had been played 17 times, less than 1/4 the number of times most kingdoms have, with zero wins), a kingdom practically shunned in individual games. The Elves and Black Dragons have yet to gain that distinction (since last I looked). Meanwhile, a few kingdoms dominate valhalla. Adding the new kingdoms before achieving at least a semblance of balance is what turned me off the game. I have no interest in exploring the new kingdoms. I admit it may be because I have not fully investigated the previous 24 kingdoms. Now though, the game seems very cluttered. Just my two cents. That's fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, of course. However, not many people share that opinion. In the 8+ years that I've been with Alamaze, we've added new kingdoms, spells, troop types, etc. to the game every year. And every year, we've also fine-tuned various aspects of the game. Not just kingdom-to-kingdom but other matters as well. This is an ongoing and continual process. I remember back in 2nd Cycle days where the kingdoms were static, we've made many changes to spell lists, adjusted troop strength values, etc., all kinds of modifications to balance and re-balance the game mechanics. So, even if the kingdom selection list is static, we've still made various changes to make the game better, year after year. To say that people shouldn't play the game just because we've added new kingdoms in that we've somehow unbalanced the game (your opinion), is a rather ignorant view. We're all entitled to our opinions, but the game will be continually improved upon even if the number of kingdoms are static in nature, like years past. The staff here always tests and re-tests the design, compatibility, functionality, and other considerations, regardless if the subject at hand is a new or old element to the game. So, sorry, saying that adding new kingdoms ruins the game because we don't evaluated everything together (we do quite a bit actually) is a rather ignorant view on game design and theory.
02-04-2023, 09:15 PM
Uncle Mike you are a narcissistic little punk and I am GONE as long as you are involved with this game. SOME of us have been playing a LOT longer than 8 years, more like 30 years. I gave my opinion respectfully and without taking personal shots. You have to go name calling, go f-- yourself.
02-05-2023, 02:03 AM
Is any of this actually helpful to Alamaze or the PBM industry?
We all have lots of opinions, some good, some bad. Not all need be shared. 
Hello folks! It is beautiful outside here in central Florida: sunny, clear skies, 72 degrees. Played pickleball early, golf in the afternoon, steaks on the grill for dinner. Life is good.
Now, this will not be comprehensive, just little old me giving my impressions on what I take as:
I'll start with the last: the tension created is deliberate of course, and is a key to the longevity of Alamaze. New players will aspire to survive into the late game, which is no mean feat, faced with a world of uncertainty and trepidation. To win is to play as close to perfect as possible, including finessing the key decisions. Champions do not waste a single command in a 30 turn game that then may have involved 500 orders. It is daunting and tense. In what should be welcome consolation, even our annual Champions of Alamaze would never claim to have played a flawless game. A dumb error, a tactical oversight, unexpected brilliance from a rival or the setback of an unaccounted for opponent spoiling what was going to be a heroic victory, this is what happens too often in life and in Alamaze. Two things to me that keeps the anachronism "play by mail" alive to true strategy aficionados are the anticipation of seeing the results of careful planning with consideration to many variables, and the reality that your opponents are worthy competitors: not a computer programmed to let you win. There are no do-overs in a game, but there is the next campaign. Next and probably most importantly, I welcome and appreciate Maximus most recent appearance here and livening up the forum, which had been a bit sleepy in the last couple months. Yes, Maximus (aka Grim Finger, Grim to his frenemies, or "Charles" if I get more "meta" with him) is kind of a guiding spirit to the hobby, and has been in the 20 years or so I have "known" him, well enough to have seen his son's baby pictures. He created this forum for me and Alamaze, among other things, including the production of his magazines, the only ones still covering PBM, that in which he has always encouraged purveyors to submit free advertising and otherwise do what has been in his power to promote the hobby for no commercial purpose. As Alamaze has earned its stripes as a grand strategy game, so has Maximus as the surviving high priest of the hobby. Thanks for such contributions, friend to PBM. The years may have mellowed me some, perhaps even a trace of maturity creeping in to my demeanor. I don't find a compulsive urge to defend Alamaze as I certainly would have repelled any "attacks" long ago. Now, even if I know a criticism is not based on something real, it is like the old expression, "perception is everything". So when Maximus has the courage to document his errors and frustrations and (temporary surely) disappointment, I don't counter it, I am better able to listen and understand. What matters isn't whether he (any player that is) is right or wrong: what is real is the circumstance was a hurdle for the player and likely many others who were silent, that should be fixed one way or another. To digress to one example given; that being what Grim found to be a red button of self destruction, the Ready button saga. The situation of it creating the OMG horror of hitting it without entering any orders is really only a problem in the tutorial, where there is only one player. The Ready button signals you are ready, so if all are ready, the game turn processes. But until that occurs or the turn deadline arrives, a player can still add and amend commands, right up until the turn processes, even if the Ready button has been pressed. For experienced players, the Ready button was a truly great innovation. Gone, for Alamaze at least, are the old days of snail mail where there were to us, a now unfathamable 14 days between turns. With the Ready button and experienced players, while not quite a life saver, the Ready button allows the game to proceed a pace of the players wishes, instead of tied to a cycle. Particularly in the opening stages, experienced players will have the first few turns ready in short order and usually none of them wish to wait until the deadline. This also becomes a courtesy among players, unenforceable, but appreciated that the same player is not the one always last to indicate ready while the other eleven are just waiting for him. I don't know that other games have this feature, but I am confident it is very much welcomed by experienced players. The Ready button is just one example of how Alamaze has evolved in its space, that is the style of PBEM gaming. Meanwhile so many changes have occurred within the game itself it is dizzying to think back to First Cycle that blew away the hard core hobbyists. While it is true some kingdoms, like the Sacred Order have not achieved the glory garnered by most other kingdoms, it is akin to the expression that the rule is proved by the exception. A matter of lingering pride is that Alamaze offers such disparate kingdom choices, for example, The Red Dragons compared to the Underworld, near polar opposites in style, approach, strategic alternatives, and yes, role playing, but our Champions can likely make compelling arguments for either to be considered among if not the most dangerous kingdom to play. The mage kingdoms are coveted and feared in the late game, but the mage players sweat bullets and pray a lot during the early and mid-game to reach that point where they feel the tide has turned in their favor. I don't know if Alamaze really has competition in this regard. Much has been made about the Rules for Alamaze. Yes, it is intimidating when considered as a great tome to digest. But again among recent achievements was Unclemike's diligent undertaking of consolidating all the clutter I had created through all these releases, not to mention cleaning up the loose ends or inherent contradictions, and the annoyance of players not able to easily locate a vital bit of info, like, "when does the Demon Prince obtain the Dome of Invulnerability?" It is all together now and very well organized. As said, it's volume is much consumed by reference material, which need not be digested, but merely available when needed. Well, I risk putting readers to sleep if I wax on. We do want to hear as much as possible about the experience new players, particularly veteran PBM players have when tackling the best example of the hobby, in order to continue to make Alamaze ever better, and to the point of growing the community, to welcome and encourage and assist new players on the path to becoming veterans with Alamaze as the game they wish they had discovered long before. And I don't want to forget how helpful the player community has always been in that regard, nurturing new players here on the forum and in the role we encourage as mentors within the game. Our players really step up in this regard and new players need only reach out once to receive help, which turns to inspiration. Keep it coming Maximus Dominus. You rock. 
02-06-2023, 04:30 PM
Amen, well said Ry Vor and thanks to everyone contributing to all the threads and forums.
02-07-2023, 01:41 AM
(02-05-2023, 02:03 AM)VballMichael Wrote: Is any of this actually helpful to Alamaze or the PBM industry? Actually, it is, and it can be, both to Alamaze, specifically, and to the PBM industry, generally. It may not be helpful, as an illuminating example of individuals on their best behavior and most tolerant of dispositions, but that's largely beside the point. (02-05-2023, 02:03 AM)VballMichael Wrote: We all have lots of opinions, some good, some bad. Not all need be shared. I would suggest that in recent months, even in recent years, the reduced level and degree of "sharing" of one's thoughts and opinions, from what was the case once upon a long while ago, has neither been an improvement, nor an assurance that elevated feelings and heightened emotions on issues that come under discussion won't transpire. Surely, they will, and they do, and they have, for the very reason that individuals don't always agree, whether we're right or whether we're wrong on a particular given point. How many times since I first encountered either Internet forums, or prior to that, computer bulletin board (BBS) discussion forums or groups,have I also encountered attempts or stated or implied desires that basically amount to, "Can't we all just get along?" If the sum totality of human history on this planet is any kind of indicator, at all, then the answer to that question is a resounding and emphatic, "No!" Ideally, we would all just always get along, even and especially when we don't necessarily agree. Players of games and programmers of game have some things in common, and chief along all of these is the fact that they are all human beings. We all have emotions. We all like to get to have our say. We all have our limits that we establish from ourselves. And we all have room for improvement. And on top of all of this, things are constantly changing all around us, and our opinions change, also, at times - some faster than others, others slower. Sometimes, we're set in our ways. Other times, our hearts become hardened, and we don't like to budge. Our dislikes and our disagreements we sometime allow to become more important top us, even if only temporarily, than other, more important things. Those times that we screw up, that we let things go a little farther than would have been better had we not, those occasions when we reach our temporary or momentary tolerance levels, and then we spit fire and breath smoke, they are all a part of the growing process. To try and head them all off, to nip them all in the bud (as old Deputy Barney Fife liked to say), to preclude people from having their say, their hottest heat of the moment, as many times as not, tend to be road maps to nowhere. As a general rule of thumb, human beings of every background and of every field of learning and training and indoctrination tend to be much better at taking conversations to the edge of confrontation and conflict, than we tend to be at walking things back from the edge. Learning to communicate is always a challenge, even on the very best of days, and learning to communicate effectively is a whole lot harder than just communicating. People get their feelings hurt, and people deliberately say things intended to be felt and to sting. There is no law, however, against the practice of both tolerance and self-discipline. Anytime that people who are passionate about something, or who give a damn about something, get together and talk about stuff that matters, feelings ted to get brought in - and they often get in the way of otherwise very productive discussions. Me? I like discussions. I like conversations. I can revel in debates of the informal variety. I can stand my ground. I've been known to, in fact. I don't fear verbal engagement and conversational disagreement. I can usually think on my feet. I can wield words with a certain degree of precision. I am, after all, very practiced in doing just, exactly that. Where was Charles, when Mike was busting his ass trying to program all kinds of shit that Rick McDowell came up with? Who else among you was helping Mike with the programming, the actual programming? Mike's not the first programmer that's helped Rick get things from where they were long, long ago to their present shape and form. Mike has done a yeoman's job on a lot of different things, in a lot of different areas. A programmer should be programming. Otherwise, their primary strengths are going wasted Discussions and debates, especially debates of the informal variety, are not programming. It's easy to take pop shots at Mike, or even at one another. Is Mike perfect? Nope. Neither is any player of Alaamze, nor is the designer of Alamaze, and I sure as hell ain't perfect. In life, we all have our moments in the sun and in the shade. Most of what gets discussed and said and that we get all worked up about tend to be of a fleeting and temporary variety. And when we're mad as hell, we're not objective. One's anger, after all, is not the actual measure of how right or wrong that they are about a given subject. The world doesn't end because people sometimes blow up at each other in online forums. It happens every day in this life, on this world, on this Internet. The real test of the concept of community isn't who all can get mad and stay mad. Rather, who can get mad and then walk themselves back from the edge of their own anger? After all, using Rick McDowell as an example (he makes a fine guinea pig, don't you think), if Rick McDowell ever gets mad, whether once or a zillion times, it is his own anger that he gets mad with, not my anger. Only I can get mad from my anger. If it's ours, don't we own it? Isn't it, thus, our own responsibility to walk ourselves back from our own anger? I'm not aiming this at VballMichael, but at everyone. What is that old saying, again? Everyone is their own worst enemy. I can't make anyone like anyone else, and neither can I make someone cease to be mad about something that they're willing clinging to with all their might (or a considerable portion of their anger). My function isn't that of babysitter. I'm no self-help guru. Over-heated personalities are a lot like cars whose radiators get overheated. All of that heat and steam will only get you just so far. Tell me this - where are a series of Mexican standoffs likely to get everyone? Where are Mexican standoffs (isn't that what they used to be called?) in the best interested of Alamaze, itself, the various individual colorful personalities, aside? Or is all that matters our colorful personalities, as individuals? None of us, as individuals, have all of the answers, but together, we can likely find and likely already possess more answers than any of us individually. Me? I can't program. I have designed a PBM game, before, but I'm definitely no Rick McDowell, and I didn't even design the game that I designed way back when all by myself. Does Rick know everything? Nope - and I assure you, he already knows that. IF he knew everything, Alamaze would have been done and hyper-successful long, long ago. Good, solid, and lasting answers of substance are sometimes hard to come by. I haven't read all of the forum postings, here, but I have read more than just a few. I can tell when sharks begin circling - word sharks! You know what's really curious, though? I've yet to trip over anyone's halo, while reading through the forums. Should I compile a list of the various word sharks that have flashed their verbal teeth, and then we all vote on the biggest and the baddest? That might be fun, huh? In a nutshell, sometimes in life, we all get our priorities mixed up. I may seem like some new guy that just showed up, all of a sudden, but if you scroll your mouse atop my user name, you'll find that my uid (forum User ID) number is 1. Rick McDowell's is 2. UncleMike's is 152. Mine is 1, because I installed the forum. Senior Tactician's is 2441. I may seem like a stranger, ere (or nearly so), but in actuality, I was on this forum (and the forum before it) long before any of you, other than Rick McDowell was, and even he I was on here a little bit before him. unclemike registered as a forum user here on 03-17-2013. He's been here almost ten years, just as a forum user. He didn't invest all of the time that he invested in programming improvements in the game, and in fixing things that were broken or annoying, just so that he could enjoy the "pleasure" of pissing anybody off. That's not where his true interest lies. I registered on this forum on 01-29-2012. Rick McDowell didn't get around to registering here until 02-13-2012. Yet, of all of the Alamaze players on this forum, I am the least knowledgeable about the game, and I possess the least familiarity with the game. I can't replicate in short order the individual or collective understanding about the game's complex mechanics and substantial nuances. I'm effectively flying blind. I'm not here to take sides, nor to crack down on anyone. Those simply aren't interests of mine. Petty squabbles don't usually amount to a hill of beans in my eyes. It doesn't escape my notice that Alamaze might well be on the cusp of its greatest days. Why walk away from that? Be a part of it. Look past that other guy. You don't have to be best buddies, or even buddies, at all. Just because I've arrived on the scene like some kind of invading space alien is no reason to abandon ship. I haven't even begun kicking people's asses in the game, yet. Indeed, I will probably never rise anywhere close to that level of Alamaze prowess. But you just never know. . .
02-07-2023, 02:43 AM
(02-06-2023, 03:45 PM)Ry Vor Wrote: Hello folks! It is beautiful outside here in central Florida: sunny, clear skies, 72 degrees. Played pickleball early, golf in the afternoon, steaks on the grill for dinner. Life is good. Pickleball, still trying to learn to play gold, and stuffing his face with steak - now, that sounds like the Rick McDowell that I know. How may times have I criticized something about Fall of Rome, or Alamaze, or PurePage PDF, or how or why various individuals did this or did that, since Rick and I first "met" one another in that Yahoo! PBM Design Group? Rick mentioned the word "temporary." That I swing through the forum, here, and post various little remarks or "impressions," even if they are in big, bold, red letters, they sometimes have a temporary quality to them. My first impressions are not always my second impressions, nor my tenth impressions, and so on, and so forth. I don't always catch everything, the fist time around, and sometimes, my opinions continue to grow and evolve and develop. Don't ever assume that what I think about a given thing will remain a constant. Also, try to understand that I often times possess more than one opinion, simultaneously, about a given thing. In fact, some of my opinions on something can sometimes be wholly at odds with other opinions that I posses about the very same thing. I never operate on the assumption that I won't encounter any problems, nor kick over some problem that's simply been overlooked. Likewise, I never operate on an assumption that I can - or will - find anything that I can actually improve or suggest improvements for. If everybody's discovered everything about Alamaze, already, that has precluded it from growing and maintaining and retaining a large player base, then why does it not have that large player base, already? I didn't always "know" Rick McDowell. I "knew of him, long before I ever met him and got to "know" him just a little bit. Rick is, of course, significantly older than I am, and o matter what happens, I always find consolation in that fact. I was familiar with this whole Ready button concept long ago. I was as an advocate of it, in fact - and still am, in fact. That doesn't mean that even it will escape my gaze and my scrutiny, and if need be, my criticism. The Ready button is a good thing. It's underlying concept is sound. However, it's not perfect, and it can be improved upon. In an actual multiplayer game of Alamaze, if the last player to hit that Ready button before they're actually ready, what happens? What will the programming or the script do? It's automated, right? How many seconds or minutes elapse, before the game processes the next turn, if that last player accidentally hist that ready button too soon? That's where the potential from problems come in, and the potential for problems isn't limited to just and only the solo tutorial games, as far as I am aware. If Rick ends up selling the game, that will mark the end of one era, and the beginning of another era. Whether he sells it or he keeps it, there are things that are in need of fixing and/or improving. The current status quo isn't where Alamaze needs to be. If Rick disengages, that's not in Alaamze's best interest, just as it's not in Alamaze's best interests if players rage quit, or if the programmer just walks away or simply ceases to continue programming. I'm not on anybody's side, and I am no stranger to disagreeing with Rick McDowell or programmers. I haven't ever hated anybody that I encountered in the Alamaze community, and likewise, I have never been the recipient of any most likeable fellow awards. Sometimes, I rub people the wrong way, and sometimes, I am faced with the task of trying to persuade stubborn people, or people do simply aren't in the mood to be persuaded. Centurion had a Ready button, as I recall. There's things about Centurion that I didn't like, but man, the underlying foundation for it was a fabulous thing. Walmart was a much better company when Sam Walton was engaged in it and with it. Alamaze isn't likely to thrive, I don't think,. if whoever owns it, no matter who that person is, isn't engaged with it. Alamaze is a baby. It's still a baby. It still needs attention. It still needs nurturing. It's biggest problems, aside from technical ones, are likely process-related, not design-related. For me, it will be sad, when and if Rick McDowell sells Alamaze. Simultaneously, it will also likely be a day of new potential. That just tends to naturally go hand-in-hand with any change of ownership. Can it be fixed? Can it be improved? Can it be revitalized and re-energized? Its basic design is sound, but somethings not right. If it should have a much bigger player base, then there's one or more things that lie at the root of that problem. me? I try to root problems out. I seriously doubt that any other member of this forum has a clue how much time and energy and effort and money that Rick McDowell has poured into Alamaze and its lineal descendants (the original Alamaze, Fall of Rome, and Centurion). Me, I came along well after Rick already had the show well under way. It's always easy to point a finger at problems, and say, this needs to be changed or fixed or improved. What about all of the stuff that Rick got right? It's always the things that you don't get right that plague and bedevil a project. Pointing fingers is free. Fixing problems of size and scope can grow expensive, at times. Not always, but certainly, many times. How many times did I complain in years long ago, because I felt that some people weren't giving Rick a good value, in terms of and in comparison to the amount of money that he had given them? It's an enormously difficult and exceptionally time-consuming undertaking to try to move the original Alamaze (or perhaps a slightly improved version of it) that he took back over years later from his brother, Phil, and turn a vision into actual functioning flawlessly reality. Sometimes, you can be too close to a project. Other times, you can be too distant from a project. Little problems turn into big problems, and many times, even big problems turn out to be not quite as big as they originally seemed. The Alamaze of today is vastly beyond the version of Alamaze that I first tried for a grand sum of just two turns decades ago! This Alamaze has far more meat on its bones. It is light years ahead of the original Alamaze. It's a far more competitive world, today, than the gaming world was, back when the original Alamaze first came out. Advertising considerations have changed, Marketing considerations have changed. Anybody here an expert in everything? Raise your hand, if you are. A lot of things that are a part of Alamaze of today, equivalents existed in Fall of Rome. In 2005, I wrote a review of Fall of Rome, which I recently posted a copy of here. Before one thinks that I might hate a particular design element, read that review, first. I like Rick. I like seeing Rick post. I don't always agree with Rick. Sometimes, he's wrong. Other times, I'm wrong. Sometimes, we're both wrong. Otherwise, Alamaze would have been finished and successful, long, long ago. If there's another PBM game that has had as much programming improvement and addition made to it than Alamaze has enjoyed and benefited from over the last several years, I'm not aware of them. And I'm aware of quite a few PBM games. When I go to explore Alamaze, at present, I'm far and away more interested in what's annoying, what's disappointed, and what doesn't seem quite right, than I am what's right, what's working perfectly, and what is enticing and tempting. That which Alamaze has right is not the problem. The good things are never the problem with any game. Little things that new players encounter can drive them right up the wall. They suffer from a dearth of familiarity. What you assume that players will do, is not necessarily what they end up doing, what they end up trying. Making games idiot-proof isn't the easiest of professions. That some may have given up on trying to find problems, or that they have simply transitioned on to other things, does not mean that all of the kinks have been tracked down, much less ironed out. I poke, I prod, I nose around. Sometimes, I like kicking the tired and looking under the hood. I like doing things at my pace and in my way. Mostly, though, I just like Rick McDowell. And I like his grand vision for what Alamaze could eventually become. he never had to bother with reclaiming Alamaze from his brother, all those many years ago. He could have just rested on his laurels and his fond memories. Instead, he tried his hand at improving it, and at one upping himself and his past accomplishments. Me? I don't want Alamaze to die. For myself, Alamaze will always be entangled and intertwined with Rick McDowell, whether he sells it or not. If he sells it, and it then comes to enjoy a greater degree of success, then it will be in no small part due to him and his countless contributions and to his trying to drag it into the future of gaming. It's been an honor to know you, Mister Rick, and it's been a pleasure to have known you so long. I'm still younger than you are, though. Next time, share the steak. |
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