New Drafting Formula

[Jumpingfist]

I am fine with any draft system that is equally fair entering the draft. HHs suggestions are all good but occasionally someone will get there third pick and it is a issue if 3 or the 4 likely choose 1 preferred pick order. Does it really mean that one is the best? I think that will change with time as we better learn the 3rd cycle kingdoms. I already know I have changed my mind on kingdom rankings as these first few games have started to form.

I have live auctioned drafted fantasy football for more than 20 year. I also have been doing a blind bid system in a fantasy baseball for free agent/prospects for 15 years now. The bid system Rick described earlier is a lot of fun but in the end I think would cause early drops by players not properly prepared. If we did a blind bid system it would likely take a couple days especially if time zones are not compatible and may not fix the issue of getting a bad draft order out of the gate.

[Lord Thanatos]

i hope you are talking about warlords status points and not single player status points.   There are players that play mostly only warlords that would get early picks all the time since they do not accumulate single player status points.  

Another issue is using myself as an example I have so many 2nd cycle status points that even if I pick two brand players we would still pick last.  That does not match the actual team make up. (When do we start using 3rd cycle stats)

Another issue maybe it is just me but I pay the same money to play this game.  We are not just playing some free on-line game.  I do not like the idea I never get a premium draft spot because I love to play the game more than someone else and am paying the same money.   I can think of no paid sport/game where they penalize you for playing more or winning more.

I guess you do get a lower draft pick in spots.  But that is not the same here we are not drafting players.

I don't care if we use every conceivable status point collected. I don't care if we add every players age, height and social security number. I don't care if we say JF gets first choice of draft order in every game he plays. I don't care if Rick preselects the teams as he has done before.

My point is that each of the draft sequences proposed by HH were balanced and so I could draft a solid team with any of the four selections.  If you disagree we need to work on the sequence so it is as fair as possible. If you agree then it doesn't matter which selection you get.

The player is more important than the position. If you can agree with this then we need to find some method so that us mere mortals can provide a challenge for you.

[Lord Thanatos]

I think that's a fair rebuttal, JF.

No it is not.

The issue should not be a premium draft position since players may disagree on which position is premium. To me the issue is whether the contest presents a balanced composition of teams. I suppose the Harlem Globetrotters always had fun. We want the Washington Generals to have an equally good time.

We need to focus on increasing the player base.

[HeadHoncho]

My goal is to end up with a formula where (as happened in Second Cycle) the most experienced players viewed each of the four picking orders as a viable option, and of comparable value.

The reason I think JF's rebuttal was fair is because it's just like many experienced players don't like "Feudal" Chivalry because it means that not only do the non-podium players receive +25K gold, they also get first priority on Kingdom selection. And so the experienced players can get kicked back in the selection order, even if they signed up first-in-time.

A status-only ranking system could rankle similarly. I get that, and whether a person agrees or not, it's an understandable viewpoint.

[Lord Thanatos]

My goal is to end up with a formula where (as happened in Second Cycle) the most experienced players viewed each of the four picking orders as a viable option, and of comparable value.

The reason I think JF's rebuttal was fair is because it's just like many experienced players don't like "Feudal" Chivalry because it means that not only do the non-podium players receive +25K gold, they also get first priority on Kingdom selection.  And so the experienced players can get kicked back in the selection order, even if they signed up first-in-time.

A status-only ranking system could rankle similarly.  I get that, and whether a person agrees or not, it's an understandable viewpoint.

But this is only in the context of a team game where too often the teams are not equally matched in player skill. Quibbling over draft order doesn't even address why this format can easily become relegated to obscurity. Focus on team balance. The draft order is one method of addressing other imbalances. Give the team with less experience a higher selection in picking from among four roughly balanced draft positions.

[HeadHoncho]

Like I said from the beginning, I think some form of what you said is a good idea. Balancing teams in some fashion (whether via chivalry bonuses, draft order, or something else entirely that hasn't been thought of yet) could help a lot in the team format.

I just get the other side of it, too.

Personally, I'm not convinced the team format is going to be super popular, although I know Ry Vor disagrees. It just takes so long to coordinate well on a turn, and one drop spoils an entire team's game, and unbalances the rest of the game. (Although consistently requested and filled standby positions might help with the latter.)

EDIT: In the past, we balanced team games by player ranking number, not by status points, with Warlords-only players being assigned some arbitrary guestimate. That might work better than pure status points, given the potentially extreme swings on those numbers.

[Lord Thanatos]

i hope you are talking about warlords status points and not single player status points.   There are players that play mostly only warlords that would get early picks all the time since they do not accumulate single player status points.  

Another issue is using myself as an example I have so many 2nd cycle status points that even if I pick two brand players we would still pick last.  That does not match the actual team make up. (When do we start using 3rd cycle stats)

Another issue maybe it is just me but I pay the same money to play this game.  We are not just playing some free on-line game.  I do not like the idea I never get a premium draft spot because I love to play the game more than someone else and am paying the same money.   I can think of no paid sport/game where they penalize you for playing more or winning more.

I guess you do get a lower draft pick in spots.  But that is not the same here we are not drafting players.

I don't care if we use every conceivable status point collected. I don't care if we add every players age, height and social security number. I don't care if we say JF gets first choice of draft order in every game he plays. I don't care if Rick preselects the teams as he has done before.

My point is that each of the draft sequences proposed by HH were balanced and so I could draft a solid team with any of the four selections.  If you disagree we need to work on the sequence so it is as fair as possible. If you agree then it doesn't matter which selection you get.

The player is more important than the position. If you can agree with this then we need to find some method so that us mere mortals can provide a challenge for you.

[IMPERIAL_TARK]

One idea for "team balance" games: Each team consists of one team member that has achieved podium Gold, one team member that has achieved podium (but not Gold), and one team member that has not achieved podium.

[HeadHoncho]

I like it! Now, if only people would be willing to agree to it. Some folks prefer to play with their buddies, however, which I can also understand.

We might not be able to meet that specific composition for every team, but it could be a worthy target, for sure.

[Jumpingfist]

Personal attacks on the one person not allowed to attack back wonderful.

I do agree the player(s) matter more. But likely not for the same reasons as some may think.

For me the draft matters a lot I like to try different kingdom. I like to sometimes go first and sometime pick later but have picks closer together. I like that choice to be mine. I already said I think HHs selects are fair. I just want a fair choice how I form my team and pick kingdoms I do not want it dictated. This last draft I did not get my top choice I had no issue with it. I picked with what I got. But it was fair so I had no issues. Someone else even took the choice I felt was the worst as there #1 choice power to them hope they come in second .

I do not have a problem giving non podium players a bonus. I think the bonus should be changed to an extra point for order 11 but that is a different discussion. Just let me pick who I play with when I want to. I have likely played with more new teammates than most anyone, but sometimes I want to team up with others as well.