The Choosing 1st Full-On

[Ry Vor]

The premise of asking the Red Dragons, a dispersed kingdom with the strongest military brigades of all, to not have diplomacy is a major question in this postulation. 

For the Red Dragon to not have diplomacy is like the Gnomes to not use their wizards. 

I think the Gray Mouser's point was the dispersed kingdoms, maybe most particularly the Red Dragons have to make arrangements.   Otherwise, it is yes, taking out a kingdom who offends the most becomes their mission. Teeth.

It's kind of how I envision them.  You want some?

[unclemike]

Ok, I just wanted to test the scenario if the RD can stand alone against another without help or diplomacy (i.e. help) from others.

Though the Gnome and the wizard kingdoms can really make up the difference if the RD destroys their initial turn 0 troops. Once wizards are at an appropriate level (L5 for GN), they can summon 6 brigades of minotaurs/skeletons/rock golems, 3 companions, and up to 6 recruits from pc's (since one group has to be away from a pc to recruit companions). That's a whopping 15 brigades in a single turn or 30 brigades in two!

So if the RD ends up destroying a wizard's turn 0 troops, no harm is really done to them. And developing 6 pwr-5's isn't that difficult to do. The Gnome starts off with a p3, p2, two p1, and two adepts. Raising them to 5th level will take a total of 79 wiz levels or 632,000 gold.

Controlling a region should bring in about 80,000 gold (GN's industrial trait helps) plus 60,000 food (or 20,000 gold if sold) = 100,000 gold per turn. So 4 or 5 turns after gaining control of a region (when combined with pre-control gold amounts), the GN should be able to have 6 pwr-5's ready to go. That's acheiveable before turn 10 due to no seasonal adjustments in the south so what will the RD do if going up against a 15 or 30 brigade group before turn 10?

Not to mention bouncing off domes as well. I say, that spell should really be banned from the game (like a Black Lotus) since it shuts down military kingdoms quite a bit. Even a wall of flame allows combat on TAC 3 but not a dome. Even though there's a counter to dome, it's really out of reach for military kingdoms: RD gets dispel dome at L6 but RD's max assured level is L3 so it's unachievable.

Wasn't dome originally developed back in 1st Cycle to help wizard kingdoms defend against massive military groups? Well, that's not really an issue in 3rd Cycle because wizard kingdoms can rapidly build up a military within a turn or two so is the dome spell really needed to help them? I say, ban dome from the game and allow military kingdoms a chance

[Atuan]

The premise of asking the Red Dragons, a dispersed kingdom with the strongest military brigades of all, to not have diplomacy is a major question in this postulation. 

For the Red Dragon to not have diplomacy is like the Gnomes to not use their wizards. 

Just to be clear, you agree that the RD is not a viable kingdom in an anonymous game.


Now lets discuss a diplomacy game.
As to having the RD in any region, while it would slow my kingdoms growth compared to not having him there, the winged beast gets the pleasure of region spells to convince him to move out and domed pcs the entire way.(I would need to make a couple of changes to my start if I play the GN/IL/WA and the RD is in the game). But the RD doesnt have the required emissaries (spread to thin across the map and no way to get them to the region without taxing the PCs in other regions, starting PCs( PIrates with 5, Tyrant with 236... 7, RD (4), and a spread thin military with no chance of recruiting. Effectively it would slow me down from taking the region by a turn but wont prevent it from happening. He cannot stop any of the 3 from taking the city in the region and cannot prevent them from quickly gaining the region. Those additional resources from boost the wizard kingdom and the claws are dented the entire time. Soon the 22k group receives another 8k of reinforcements and you can battle against rock golems and minotaurs with Summon Death to whittle you away.

The RDs inability to human recruit and limitation on 565 recruiting (vetrans/marshal) and 3 brigade limitation does not make for a scary kingdom. They are in fact a paper tiger until they have additional starting PCs, the ability to recruit easier(either no restrictions on starting 565 recruiting, and a readjustment on veteran brigades for WY) and likely a readjustment to the bats(Unlimited total/no veteran) And the total 565 recruitment needs to be adjusted.

As to the bravado of the BL. Anyone that starts in a uncontested region has the ability to gain the region by turn 3(yes the scoutting for PCs could mean its turn 4 due to randomization) it does not mean the BL will be a military force to be reckoned with. They will be forced to become a political kingdom to win. They won't have the early pressure of a military kingdom and they wont have the late game pressure of a mage kingdom.

The dragon kingdoms gave up the ability to interact with PCs at sea and gave up the additional starting revenue from having ships for having the ability to have a great military. In the 3rd cycle they don't have the almighty armies. Turn 3 the RD can have a 22k group. 26k if you use 238s a long the way. For any mage kingdom they can summon 3 minotaurs recruit 6 times not bring their 2nd or 3rd groups into it and be at the same size. They need tweaks to make them viable. You have multiple high level players expression concerns with their viability in the 3rd cycle. In the 2nd cycle RD was the 1st pick in warlords/titan/alliance games, in the 3rd cycle its best served to not be picked at all.

One additional change you could make, give the RD the ability to select which of the 3 regions is their starting region with the set-up. IE Im taking RD and privately the send in I wish to start in region 3. At least there they gain some elements of surprise and on the diplomacy setting they have more options. Oh WA you dont want me starting in region 3. Okay pony up an additional 2 villages so I can feed my troops.

[Jumpingfist]

Dome is a good spell it adds to strategy and tactics. The balance is just off I think. Getting dome at p5 is just to early. The SO even gets dome at p4 so a military kingdom would need two groups strong enough to take a PC vs them early on. I liked dispell dome at p4 for military kingdom in 2nd cycle. Felt like a good balance still hard to get but not impossible. 3rd cycle did introduce a very good counter that a few military kingdoms do have in siege engineering allowing them to siege a town in two turns. 170/171 used to also be a good play vs dome until nerfed not allowing it vs controlled friendly regions.
I think better to look at balancing things with a counter vs deleting and taking away from the nuance of Alamaze is always better. One of my favorites additions to 3rd cycle was making it so weapons artifacts can kill liches with agents. Liches are likely to powerful in 2nd cycle so it is nice to see a counter other than wizard on wizard which was to hard for most kingdom.

[Ry Vor]

The premise of asking the Red Dragons, a dispersed kingdom with the strongest military brigades of all, to not have diplomacy is a major question in this postulation. 

For the Red Dragon to not have diplomacy is like the Gnomes to not use their wizards. 

Just to be clear, you agree that the RD is not a viable kingdom in an anonymous game.


Now lets discuss a diplomacy game.
As to having the RD in any region, while it would slow my kingdoms growth compared to not having him there, the winged beast gets the pleasure of region spells to convince him to move out and domed pcs the entire way.(I would need to make a couple of changes to my start if I play the GN/IL/WA and the RD is in the game).  But the RD doesnt have the required emissaries (spread to thin across the map and no way to get them to the region without taxing the PCs in other regions, starting PCs( PIrates with 5, Tyrant with 236... 7, RD (4),  and a spread thin military with no chance of recruiting.  Effectively it would slow me down from taking the region by a turn but wont prevent it from happening.  He cannot stop any of the 3 from taking the city in the region and cannot prevent them from quickly gaining the region.  Those additional resources from boost the wizard kingdom and the claws are dented the entire time.  Soon the 22k group receives another 8k of reinforcements and you can battle against rock golems and minotaurs with Summon Death to whittle you away.

The RDs inability to human recruit and limitation on 565 recruiting (vetrans/marshal) and 3 brigade limitation does not make for a scary kingdom.  They are in fact a paper tiger until they have additional starting PCs, the ability to recruit easier(either no restrictions on starting 565 recruiting, and a readjustment on veteran brigades for WY) and likely a readjustment to the bats(Unlimited total/no veteran)  And the total 565 recruitment needs to be adjusted.

As to the bravado of the BL.  Anyone that starts in a uncontested region has the ability to gain the region by turn 3(yes the scoutting for PCs could mean its turn 4 due to randomization) it does not mean the BL will be a military force to be reckoned with.   They will be forced to become a political kingdom to win.  They won't have the early pressure of a military kingdom and they wont have the late game pressure of a mage kingdom.  

The dragon kingdoms gave up the ability to interact with PCs at sea and gave up the additional starting revenue from having ships for having the ability to have a great military.  In the 3rd cycle they don't have the almighty  armies.  Turn 3 the RD can have a 22k group. 26k if you use 238s a long the way.  For any mage kingdom they can summon 3 minotaurs recruit 6 times not bring their 2nd or 3rd groups into it and be at the same size.  They need tweaks to make them viable.  You have multiple high level players expression concerns with their viability in the 3rd cycle.  In the 2nd cycle RD was the 1st pick in warlords/titan/alliance games, in the 3rd cycle its best served to not be picked at all.

One additional change you could make, give the RD the ability to select which of the 3 regions is their starting region with the set-up.  IE Im taking RD and privately the send in I wish to start in region 3.  At least there they gain some elements of surprise and on the diplomacy setting they have more options.  Oh WA you dont want me starting in region 3.  Okay pony up an additional 2 villages so I can feed my troops.

The persona The Gray Mouser did not do well with the Red Dragons in an Anonymous contest.  I don't know that from that sample a lot can be concluded. 

I do however, without the empirical evidence, think the lack of diplomacy in Anonymous and Silent formats, work against the dispersed kingdoms.  That doesn't in any way mean they aren't fun, but will be a different sort of challenge. 

In a diplomacy game, we do seem to have a microscope in #507, the first Full-On Choosing game, with a Red Dragon position.  We have just gotten turn 4 results, let's see how things develop.  It's going to take some time for players to recognize how Traits effect the game, as well as special abilities. 

The Gray Mouser tells me that already, playing the Red Dragon is a different experience - more intense in some ways.

[Lord Alz]

The Sorcerer has a mystical orb that dampens magic. Lord Alz has been asked to broker a trade for this item. If there is interest please contact him directly @ Jeffery.keith.fuller@gmail.com.

[Lord Thanatos]

The Sorcerer has a mystical orb that dampens magic.  Lord Alz has been asked to broker a trade for this item.  If there is interest please contact him directly @  Jeffery.keith.fuller@gmail.com.

The BL would be interested in such a trinket.  rghan03@gmail.com

[Netstrider]

The artwork for Alamaze is wonderful. But I think each kingdom needs an official song as well. For the Druid, I nominate Meet Me in the Woods:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5axbaGB...7cPylWh22B
http://www.bing.com/search?q=lord+huron+...P_HPDTDFJS

Mike, can you embed media links in the order entry program so I can listen to this song as I'm entering my orders?

[Tomag Ironfist]

LOL This is great stuff!

[IMPERIAL_TARK]

AN

The Venerable and Peace-loving Ancient Ones are expecting some "conflict" to come to the world very soon, hopefully far, far away from our small corner of the world.

At this time, the AN will be taking offers to both utilize their "Ancient Intervention" spell and/or gain immunity from it. For those of you not familiar with the spell, it allows us to void a single Group vs. Group combat (one per spell) anywhere in the Alamaze world (no range limit) between any two kingdoms. A very handy spell when your most hated enemy has managed to trap your primary army group with an even larger, more powerful army group and threatens to crush you. And of course, should you be the one with that larger, more powerful army group, the last thing you want is for your crushing victory to be negated, hence the opportunity to buy immunity from the spell. And unlike a Dome/Dispel Dome of Invulnerability spell, there is NO counter to our spell. We do pay a high "cost" for using the spell, so use of the spell and immunity from it will not be cheap, but will certainly become a huge advantage when conflict breaks out.

All forms, lengths, and amount of payment are negotiable, but full payment for use of the spell and/or immunity from it must be completed no later than the turn PRIOR to its use (no exceptions).

If you are interested please contact us privately at: bschrade@emporia.edu